It’s time for more A Crown of Swords! Today we’re finishing off the second half of Chapter 11 and heading into Chapter 12. Egwene is going to find out some secrets today, and secure a few more possible points of strength for herself.
And then, there’s Lan.
Neither Sheriam nor Siuan has come in by the time Egwene has finished her breakfast. She is just about to go looking when Siuan finally arrives, looking furious. Aeldene Stonebridge has been pumping her for information about the Amyrlin’s eyes-and-ears network again. Aeldene is the current head of the Blue eyes-and-ears network, and her arrival in Salidar had upset things for Siuan.
Egwene and Siuan talk a little about the Aes Sedai strength hierarchy, though Siuan is resistant and continues to sulk. Egwene is just about ready to shake her when she spots Myrelle riding past. She chases after her, but before Egwene can do more than command Myrelle to wait, Gareth Bryne arrives. Normally the commander sends messages to the Hall rather than coming himself, but this time he makes a leg to Egwene and asks to speak to her alone. Lelaine arrives a moment later and orders Bryne to wait, then Romanda shows up as well. She informs Egwene that Delana is “making trouble” again—the sister intends to bring a proposal to the Hall condemning Elaida as Black Ajah. They both ask Egwene to stop her, Lelaine citing the panic that could spread, and Romanda worrying that the Black Ajah will be driven deeper into hiding. The two begin to argue until they look ready to start a physical altercation. When Siuan arrives up with a groom leading horses, Egwene takes the opportunity, telling the two they should agree on what they want her to say to Delana before she decides what to do.
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Egwene, Siuan, and a resigned Myrelle ride out of the camp with Bryne. Egwene begins questioning Bryne about the journey to Tar Valon—he worries about facing opposition when they cross Andor. He also outlines his plan to take the city which involves more recruiting, swelling the numbers of his army to two or three times what he has now. Then they will sink ships in strategic places to block the entrances to the harbors, block the bridges, and wait.
And if you don’t have that many soldiers?” She had never thought of all those people going hungry, women and children. She had never really thought of anyone being involved except the Aes Sedai, and the soldiers. How could she have been so foolish?
Bryne assures her that, either with more soldiers or only with those he has now, he will be the first to successfully lay siege to Tar Valon—as long as he can successfully block the harbors. Egwene feels ill, thinking of the people who will die, the citizens who will suffer, and changes the subject by asking what Bryne wanted her to see. He repeats that it is best for her to see for herself.
They travel southward, and at one point they note a line of riders on a nearby ridge—a patrol from the Band of the Red Hand. Myrelle mutters about “Dragonsworn animals” but Bryne only remarks that when he spoke to Lord Talmanes, he seemed concerned about the Amyrlin. Myrelle suggests that talking to the man is close to treason, but Bryne only replies, placidly, that when he’s being followed by over ten thousand men, he wants to know their intentions.
Egwene ignores the lecture Myrelle begins giving about the Band’s intentions, thinking over everything Bryne has said. He is still letting Myrelle’s tirade roll off him when Egwene tunes back into the conversation and orders Myrelle to be quiet. She gently suggests that Bryne avoid speaking to Talmanes again, and Bryne placidly agrees with a “yes, Mother.”
Eventually they come to a merchant’s train that has been stopped by Bryne’s men. In the distance a line of hanged men dangle from some trees. Bryne informs Egwene, a bit reluctantly, that the merchants have brought a rumor that Rand has gone to Tar Valon to swear fealty to Elaida. Myrelle and Siuan both look about ready to pass out, but they are reassured when Egwene laughs and promises that she knows for a fact that the rumor isn’t true. Bryne points out that the rumor will still spread, and that it could have disastrous effects among the ranks. Egwene offers to send six sisters who know the truth themselves to announce it to the men, and Bryne studies her for a long, silent moment.
“So long as they say the words straight,” he said at last. “If they hedge even a hair…” His stare was not an attempt to intimidate, just to drive the point home. He seemed satisfied by what he saw in her face. “You do very well, it appears, Mother. I wish you continued success. Set your time for this afternoon, and I will come. We should confer regularly. I will come whenever you send for me. We should begin making firm plans how to put you on the Amyrlin Seat once we reach Tar Valon.”
Egwene realizes with a shock that he has just said that the army is hers. Not the Hall’s, or Sheriam’s, but hers. She thanks him, choosing her words just as carefully, then suggests he return to his men while they ride on a little more. After he departs, Egwene instructs Siuan to lead them on. Riding in silence makes Myrelle more and more nervous. At one point, as Siuan turns her horse westward, she even tries to suggest a change in course, and is visibly alarmed when Egwene demurs. Myrelle observes that Egwene must know everything, and suddenly deduces that Siuan has been spying for her all along.
Myrelle begins to sputter that Egwene has to understand, that they made a bargain with Moiraine and that Myrelle hates “letting them die.” Egwene is annoyed when Siuan interrupts and tells Myrelle to lead the rest of the way, and that “cooperation might mean mitigation.” Myrelle eagerly does as she suggests.
They come to a small huddle of tents where they find Nisao Dachen, her Warder, and Myrelle’s three Warders. Egwene also spots Nicola and Areina ducking out of sight behind the tents as Siuan instructs Myrelle to bring someone out. A few moments later Myrelle emerges from the tent with Lan. Egwene realizes a few pieces of the puzzle, but still doesn’t understand what is going on as Myrelle sends Lan to the side, where he begins to perform sword exercises. Myrelle and Nisao approach Egwene, trying to act normally but betraying their anxiety.
Egwene demands an explanation, and they reluctantly tell her—with some prompting and accusations from Siuan—how Moiraine arranged for her bond with Lan to pass to Myrelle in the event of her death. Arranged it without Lan’s permission, giving him no choice in the matter. Nisao, who studies disease of the mind, became involved later.
Egwene thinks that she should feel the same disgust that Siuan does, but she can’t help thinking of the way Lan resisted—foolishly, in Egwene’s eyes—his love for Nynaeve, and whether Egwene herself would let Gawyn refuse to be bonded to her.
Myrelle mentions that she intends to pass Lan’s bond to Nynaeve the way Moiraine instructed, which catches Egwene’s attention. After learning that Lan has been with them for two weeks and has not yet shown any sign of healing—Myrelle suggests it could take months, and even then there is no guarantee—Egwene decides it is time for a different approach. She goes over to Lan, who continues working the sword forms in a blur of motion, stopping his sword just a hair’s breadth from her.
Egwene tells Lan that Nynaeve is Aes Sedai now, and explains the danger she is facing in Ebou Dar before telling Lan that she is sending him to Nynaeve to act as her Warder. Lan immediately orders Areina to saddle Mandarb, then apologizes for ever helping Egwene and Nynaeve leave the Two Rivers. He strides away, and Egwene shuts down Myrelle’s protests that Nynaeve isn’t ready to handle Lan like this.
“There’s one thing you haven’t been able to do. Give him a task so important that he has to stay alive to carry it out.” That was the final element. Supposedly it worked better than the rest. “To him, Nynaeve’s safety is that important. He loves her, Myrelle, and she loves him.”
Nisao is incredulous that Lan could love someone like Nynaeve, pointing out that no woman has ever been able to collar and leash Lan Mandragoran that way. It’s clear from her comment that Myrelle has tried sleeping with Lan—putting a grieving Warder into the bed of a woman is supposed to be one of the ways to make him want to live—and Egwene thinks that it would be best if Nynaeve never found out about that.
Egwene also deduces that Nicola and Areina have been blackmailing the two sisters. The two are shocked that Egwene has figured that out, though Nisao remarks that, whatever happens to her and Myrelle, she’ll be pleased to at least have Nicola face the punishment she deserves. Egwene answers that there will be justice… but only if Myrelle and Nisao face justice themselves.
She leaves them to stew on that and goes over to Lan, who has reemerged from the tent with his belongings. She makes a gateway and a platform for them both to stand on, and the only question Lan asks as he leads his horse onto the platform is how quickly it will take him to Ebou Dar. Egwene explains she can only get him within five or six days riding and gives him other instructions about how to find Nynaeve and protect her, and that he should tell Nynaeve that Myrelle will pass his bond to her. He listens and repeats the instructions back to her, but she finds his eyes terrifying, sees in them a stark and primal denial of life.
When they reach their destination Egwene follows him out into the light. He promises to make it to Ebou Dar faster than five or six days, and that Nynaeve will be safe.
“You’ve come a very long way since Emond’s Field.” Looking down at her, he smiled. Any warmth in it was swallowed by his eyes. “You have a hold on Myrelle and Nisao, now. Don’t let them argue with you again. By your command, Mother. The watch is not done.”
Egwene watches him go, shocked that even in his current state he had noticed and understood the dynamic between her and the other sisters. She skims back to find Myrelle and Nisao browbeating Siuan while the Warders, Nicola, and Areina pack up the camp. Siuan has been explaining possible penalties to the two other sisters, and Egwene can see agitation in their Warders. It is just how Egwene wants things, and she sends Siuan to put the fear of the Light into Nicola and Areina while Egwene stays to talk to Myrelle and Nisao.
Egwene tells them that without her protection they will at the very least lose their Warders and alludes to the other punishments the Hall, and possibly also their Ajahs, might have for them—it may be years before they can hold their heads up again. But if Egwene is to protect them, they must have an obligation to her in turn. They must swear fealty.
Nisao observes that Egwene is very dangerous, and may break the Tower fully before she is done. Still, she kneels and swears, and a reluctant Myrelle follows suit. Egwene orders them not to tell anyone about Siuan, and to obey all Siuan’s orders as if they come from Egwene.
On their ride back, Egwene tells Siuan about Nicola and Areina’s attempt to blackmail her. Siuan suggests arranging for the two to meet some “accidents,” but Egwene sharply forbids it, pointing out that such a decision will only lead to more killing.
Despite how well the day has been going, Egwene returns to her tent with a terrible headache. Finding letters from Romanda and Lelaine with more demands about Delana doesn’t help, and Egwene feels like her head is about to burst when Halima arrives with a paper from Delana outlining the declaration of Elaida as a Darkfriend that she intends to put before the Hall.
Halima offers to give Egwene a massage, something she has done for Egwene’s headaches before. As much as Halima can be a nuisance, especially because of the messages she brought from Cabriana about Elaida and Darkfriends, Egwene feels that the woman is often judged unfairly because of the way she looks. Worries pile up in Egwene’s mind, worries about rooting out darkfriends without frightening the rest of the Aes Sedai too much, worries about the crossing of Andor, worries about what it will cost to wage war against Tar Valon. Halima urges her to stop worrying, stop tensing up again, suggesting Egwene might benefit from a hot bath. As she works, Egwene finds herself teetering on the brink of sleep—real sleep, not a Dreamer’s sleep.
But there was one thing yet today to look forward to, a reason to remain awake. “That will be nice,” she murmured, meaning more than the promised massage. Long ago she had pledged that one day she would bring Sheriam to heel, and today was the day. At last she was beginning to be the Amyrlin, in control. “Very nice.”
Oh dear. I wonder if Egwene’s headaches are just from stress and too much time in the Dream, or if Aran’gar is doing something to her. That’s a frightening thought—though it’s pretty frightening even if all Aran’gar has done so far is get close to Egwene and become a confidant. Watching Egwene relax and get sleepy under the touch of one of the Forsaken was really, really discomfiting.
There’s a lot in this section that’s discomfiting. But I really enjoyed watching Egwene start to realize just what going to war actually means. It’s a journey Mat, Rand, and Perrin have already had, or at least begun, as all three have become military leaders. Now Egwene is the next of them to have to learn those hard lessons. It was especially moving when she watched the soldiers taking the supplies from the farmer and wondered how much of a difference he and his family would really see between Egwene’s forces and the brigands who murder those they steal from. Egwene was once from a farming community herself, after all, and she’s well aware that the money the farmers are paid may not make up for supplies and animals they need for themselves. After all, if it was as easy as going somewhere else to buy food then the army would just do that.
It’s not any clearer to me than it is to Egwene how the Wise Ones determine precedence, but it is clear that their way is better. Strength in the Power is very important in certain things, but it doesn’t make someone intelligent, or wise, or a good leader, or a good person. Sometimes it does exactly the opposite, given how often power corrupts.
Like so many of the Aes Sedai’s issues, it is adherence to custom and tradition without understanding where that tradition comes from that gets them into trouble. As Egwene observed last week, the Aes Sedai are resistant to change, but once they accept it they act as though it has always been. This pragmatism serves them well in a lot of ways, but it also shows how unwilling the Aes Sedai are to interrogate themselves and the way they do things. This has resulted in an inflexibility and a stagnation within the ranks of the Aes Sedai that is really hurting them, especially now, given how much change comes with the Dragon Reborn, and how quickly.
I can imagine that choice to base the White Tower hierarchy on strength in the Power came from a good place. As female channelers struggled after the Breaking to rebuild some version of the Aes Sedai, they were no doubt accustomed to relying on that strength to defend themselves during that warlike time. With little security other than what the One Power gave them, the strongest individuals would have been one of their greatest assets. The eldest would have been another, given how much knowledge was lost, and we do see some deference to age and experience in the White Tower to this day.
And in some ways, the strength-based hierarchy can be viewed as egalitarian. Every novice who comes to the White Tower is put on the same level as every other, regardless if she is of noble or humble birth. They are all given the same chores, the same rules, the same responsibilities. And when they are sisters, the bluest of bloods may well find herself subservient to a fisherman’s daughter.
You know, I bet that is one of the reasons Siuan is struggling so much with the reduction in her power and status. Of course there are a lot of practical reasons—she’s smarter, more adaptable, and more aware than most of the other sisters, and she’s been working towards the same ends almost since the day she was raised to the shawl—but there are personal ones too. Siuan is stubborn and practical, and it’s difficult for her to watch other people be less pragmatic or less intelligent than she is. She’s also a bit of a hothead (much like Nynaeve) and doesn’t have any outlet for that anger now that she is in such a subservient positon. But I wonder, too, if growing up in poverty and then being raised out of it to a high position wasn’t something of a revelation for Siuan. She saw her merit as a person being recognized in a way it never would have been without the One Power. And now all that merit is still there, but she’s lost the leverage she had to make it count.
All this really makes me wonder how hierarchy worked in the Age of Legends. In some ways it seems like that culture was still very hierarchical. We don’t know if they measured worth and status primarily by channeling strength or not, but we do know that power and personal glory was much sought after, since that was what seems to have driven so many of the Forsaken to turn to the Dark One. Immortality itself is a form of hierarchy as well, when you think about it—by escaping death, such a person could maintain power and prestige, unrivaled, for literally ever.
I’m just about as frustrated with Romanda and Lelaine as Egwene is. I can understand how difficult their position must be; they’ve spent most of their lives defined by the structure and rules of the White Tower, and now they’re floundering either to rebuild that structure or to create something new—no small feat for anyone. But the way they’re fighting each other is just so childish, and so pointless, it’s hard to have any respect for them at all. I think I have more for Romanda because she came out of retirement—that suggests a certain kind of dedication to the Aes Sedai. Although, depending on her reasons for going into retirement, it might still have been more of a power grab than anything.
I can’t really blame them for their desire to use Egwene—from their perspective it doesn’t make a lot of sense to let someone of Egwene’s youth and inexperience lead as a true Amyrlin. Their motivations for voting for her are pretty iffy though, as is their behavior towards each other. I honestly respect Sheriam a lot more than the two of them, at the moment, although I’m still a little worried she’s Black Ajah. Delana can’t be the only one, and since we know about Aran’gar already, I feel like there must be a surprise waiting for us in the form of some character we know well who turns out not to be who we think. Right now, Sheriam is the only character who fits that mold, narratively speaking. Unless Chesa is one of the Forsaken in disguise, or something.
The point is, I still haven’t forgotten the dead gray man in Sheriam’s bed. I would like some answers about that, thank you.
Speaking of Delana, I had actually forgotten that she was the Black Ajah member that Halima/Aran’gar is controlling. Then Romanda and Lelaine reported Delana’s obsession with the Black Ajah and intention to denounce Elaida as one. When they started fighting, with Lelaine seeing the whole thing as stupid and Romanda wanting to question sisters while simultaneously fearing that they might drive the Black Ajah into hiding, all I could think about was how Delana’s actions would make a lot of sense as a Black Ajah move—then I remembered that she is, in fact, Black Ajah, and acting on Aran’gar’s instructions.
I really have so much empathy for Siuan. I can’t help but think about how alike she is to the Wise Ones—she does what she must and accepts the consequences. Thus she is keeping to the oath she swore to Bryne, even though Egwene could probably convince Bryne to accept payment for the debt. Even when Siuan was escaping, she told Min that she fully intended to come back and fulfill her oath to him when she could. Egwene is already thinking along the same lines—she’s prepared to behave unethically in Tel’aran’rhiod if she needs to, for example.
Moiraine was also this way. Dedicated, as Siuan was as well, to finding and guiding the Dragon Reborn in whatever way she could, she did whatever she felt she had to in order to achieve that goal. She used balefire, even though it was forbidden. She swore to obey Rand because she knew that it was the only way he would accept her help. And I think this was the same way of thinking that led her to treat Lan the way she did.
Morally, of course, it’s an absolutely abhorrent action. Robbing someone of their free will is just about the worst offense one can commit with the power—we’ve seen other examples, such as compulsion or the use of the a’dam. Traditionally tools of the bad guys, we’ve now seen some of our heroes using the a’dam as well, though only as a means of controlling dangerously evil and powerful people like Moghedien. Siuan has even suggested the murder of Nicola and Areina as a cover up—Egwene was right in pointing out that such justification for killing could spiral into more, but it’s not an impossible stretch to imagine a situation in which such a killing might be deemed necessary, if regretable. Just as the deaths of innocent civilians may end up a regrettable but necessary cost of taking the White Tower from Elaida and reuniting the Aes Sedai.
But to bring it back to Lan, whether or not one agrees with Moiraine’s decision, it’s not hard to understand why she did what she did. Knowing she was going to die, Moiraine was, as always, thinking about the fate of the world. In her estimation, Lan was too essential to the fight to have his life be lost with hers, and so she made a decision that was morally incorrect for him, but that she believed was necessary for the world. I was going to say that she wasn’t thinking about Lan at all, but of course that isn’t actually true—she clearly put a lot of thought into how, if he survived losing her, his life might eventually look. She made sure that Myrelle would pass his bond on to Nynaeve, specifically, and must have been as aware as Egwene is that any chance Lan has of recovering from what has been done to him lies in his ending up with the woman he loves.
It’s interesting to note that the Aes Sedai compare bonding a man—or transferring his bond—against his will to rape, given that Myrelle then went on to actually rape him. I have a lot of thoughts about Lan’s situation here, so much so that I’m going to do a separate essay about it. For now, though, I will simply point out the fact that it is impossible for a man in Lan’s position to consent to sex, and that being compelled to such an act is hardly conducive to improving his mental health. And Myrelle’s comparison of the act of passing a bond as alike to a woman deciding who her husband will marry after her death is just ridiculous—even if there is cultural pressure on the husband in question, his position is a far cry from a Warder being compelled and controlled by the bond.
And of course, this isn’t the first time in the story that something like this has happened.
Alanna bonded Rand without his permission or knowledge. And both Elayne and Egwene have had some questionable thoughts about bonding. Elayne certainly hasn’t said anywhere in her narration that she would bond Rand without his consent, but neither has she seemed to consider that he might refuse, or what she would do in that case. She is simply determined. As for Egwene, well, she literally considers that she should be as horrified by Lan’s situation as Siuan is, but she isn’t.
Would Nynaeve have let [Lan] walk away unbonded, had she had the chance, whatever he said? Would she herself let Gawyn? He had said he would accept, yet if he changed his mind…?
Egwene also considers the fact that some sisters argue that a man can’t really consent to bond because it’s impossible for him to understand what it truly entails before he has experienced that. It’s also suggested in plenty of places that not all Aes Sedai bother explaining everything fully before they bond their Warders.
And so we’re left with the same question Egwene is now asking herself. What justifies amoral actions? When is it appropriate to put the greater good ahead of the rights of the individual? Who is worth sacrificing along the way to the salvation of the world?
I remember Siuan saying something similar when she delegated Nynaeve and Egwene (and Elayne by proxy) to be her hounds in the hunt for the Black Ajah. She said that it was wrong to put Accepted, young and inexperienced women, into such danger. But she had to, because they were the only people in the White Tower she knew for certain that she could trust. Compared to the questions Egwene is facing now, compared to the ones all the leaders of the world face, and Rand most of all, that was a relatively small sacrifice to make. But it was the same logic, the same mathematics if you will, that led Moiraine to violate Lan’s trust and autonomy by passing on his bond. The same logic that led Nynaeve, Elayne, and Egwene to keep Moghedien enslaved via the a’dam. The same thinking that has the soldiers taking supplies from every farm they pass, trying their best to do as little harm as possible but ultimately putting their need above the farmers they take from.
This is hardly the last time our heroes will be faced with such questions—it’s bound to get more difficult and more painful as we go on. But hopefully Egwene’s actions will help Lan at least a little—she’s taken him away from Myrelle’s ministrations, which is definitely a good thing. Nyneave loves him, and he loves her too. That is something to live for.
I’ll be taking the next two weeks off for a bit of a holiday break, so I will see you all back here on January 3rd for an essay about Lan and how The Wheel of Time tackles the subject of male rape. (Yes, I know, it’s such a very festive start to the New Year.) I hope that everyone who is celebrating has a wonderful holiday, and I wish every single one of you an excellent New Year. As always, thanks for being such an amazing group of readers—I’m honored to have been able to run this column for all this time, and that we’re still going strong.
Happy Holidays!
Sylas K Barrett was endlessly amused by Nisao’s constant refrain of “I should never have listened to you!” in Egwene’s presence. She was like a little kid trying to make sure that the parents put the blame for everything on her sibling for being the instigator.
” I will see you all back here on January 3rd for an essay about Lan and how The Wheel of Time tackles the subject of male rape.”
The dramatic irony is killing me here.
If Sylas had decided to wait a few more weeks before writing this essay, he’d have a LOT more to talk about!
Myrelle is clearly a poor choice of therapist, but I don’t agree that Moirain’s action to prevent Lan from killing himself are immoral. We’ve done away with most involuntary psychiatric treatment, but suicidality is still generally considered a valid reason to remove a person’s liberty. If she’d transferred his bond directly to Nyneave, I don’t think most people would have a problem with it.
Moderator – I agree with @1 above. There is a significant potential male rape issue that takes up a good amount of chapter time in the middle to end of this book. Please consider suggesting to Sylas to hold off until he gets to the end of Crown of Swords -as he’ll be able to have a more robust discussion of this issue.
Seriously, could the Moderator(s) gently suggest to Sylas that he postpone his essay on “male rape” for a few more chapters? It seems a shame to let him blindly offer analysis in advance if material in the text that DIRECTLY BEARS ON the topic!
Note that I agree with @1 and hope someone tells Sylas to save his essay for the end of ACOS.
I really liked the way Sylas delved into the topic of rulebreaking, whether the rules are moral, cultural, or institutional. A strong recurring theme in WOT is the way most of Team Light need to break rules sooner or later to advance their goal of fighting the Dark One.
The six women Sylas mentions are not the only rulebreakers. Mat, of course, flouts law and custom as a hobby, but there are other examples among the men:
Rand declares repeatedly that he is going to break the rules, doing so most spectacularly in the process of becoming Car’a’carn in TSR. He knows that telling the Aiel about their past is going to impose stresses many will find intolerable–as it does, resulting in the bleakness and implacable Shaido enmity. He hates what he is doing to the Aiel but sees no way around it if he is to defeat the DO.
Perrin enters tel’aran’rhiod in the flesh despite urgent warnings. In AMOL he saves a certain hero by breaking a very strong Duopotamian taboo.
Often the story emphasizes that protagonists must understand and accept the negative consequences of their rulebreaking: e.g., Egwene vis-à-vis lying to the Wise Ones, and Siuan coming to terms with how her own actions in finding and shielding the Dragon Reborn have led to her deposal and stilling as well as the breaking of the Tower. This can constitute an important part of these characters’ development: who can forget how Siuan, after her first grief, squares her shoulders and marches on once she’s escaped Elaida?
SMALL SPOILER HERE: In many ways, Nynaeve is the protagonist most married to rules and propriety. We see her outlook broadening in diverse ways throughout WOT, much as she struggles against it.
This comes to a climax when she is tested for full sisterhood in TOM. She breaks some major rules and is asked to promise she won’t do it again. Her refusal is magnificent: she declares she will choose Lan, those in need, and the fight against the DO over the shawl. It’s a satisfying index of her growth.
It’s implied through the series that the White Tower was initially formed as a compromise between seven independent groups all claiming to be the true Aes Sedai (becoming the seven Ajah). I feel like the strength based hierarchy would have made sense at the time. A rank based system like the seafolk wouldn’t work since each Ajah has its own secret internal ranking system. An age based system would seem unfair since i imagine less active Ajah like the white are more likely to live longer then a more active Ajah like the green. A decentralised system like the Aiel use would defeat the point of the unity the tower tries to project.
While the strength based system has many drawbacks as Silias said its arbitrariness makes it somewhat egalitarian, no one gains advantage because their background, theoretically no Ajah is more likely to contain stronger sisters .
I seem to recall a hint somewhere that Lan was aware that Moiraine had this arrangement, when Moiraine commented something about it to him. It was still without his consent though.
Also, the way I read it Myrelle did not manage to seduce Lan, but did try. That would make it attempted rape. I know, semantics and it doesn’t change much to the severity, but it says something about Lan. I may have misread there though.
@1 AGrey:
If Sylas had decided to wait a few more weeks before writing this essay, he’d have a LOT more to talk about!
Absolutely, my little duckling. ;)
@1 Exact same thougts; but I think it means we will have a second essay then.
Hey folks, we passed your suggestion about the timing of the essay on to Sylas. Thanks!
@8 – Lan became aware of the arrangement when Moiraine told him about it in TGH if I am not misremembering. I do recall that he was PISSED and likened himself to a parcel to be passed around. As for the Myrelle/Lan situation I had always read it as implying that they did do the deed.
One thing I never really considered until now though was to wonder if Myrelle just sort of threw herself at him and said “hey I know how to make you feel better and this is for your own good” and Lan went with it because he just did not care or did she actually use the bond to compel him to do it? Both are obviously problematic but if she used the bond to compel him, hoo boy does that ratchet up the rape implications to 11.
also, no one murder me, because I’m not defending her actions but I did want to put out a thought here. Considering that Myrelle and AS views in general on the topic seem to lean toward sex being a therapeutic treatment only in these situations does that make her actions any less abhorrent? I get that our society has very strong taboos against this kind of violation of body and consent. But I could also make the case that many medical procedures could also be construed as physical violation. If Lan didn’t explicitly say no, in some ways isn’t this similar to a doctor trying to save a patient’s life where they can’t get direct consent and have to rely on implied consent? What if Lan were unconscious and Myrelle were a doctor that needed to give him a blood transfusion to keep him from dying but that violated his religious beliefs? She’d do it using implied consent but in some ways it is still a violation. I’m not trying to “whatabout” away the issue here but it’s just a thought I had. I’m sure this will spark debate. Final words. If Myrelle did compel him, all of this is moot. It becomes rape, full stop even with the points I raised. I’m still not giving her a pass because in my worldview what she did is still rape but if I’m looking at it through the eyes of someone living in Randland I may have a bit of a different perspective..
Yes @8 Fiddler she did hint very strongly at it (I believe when the two of them were staying with Vandene and Adeleas around tGH?). Lan did not seem to like the idea then either, even though she broadly hinted that he might be likely to end up with Nynaeve.
I believe Moiraine knew, through either or both of the Accepted test and the twisted door in Tear, that she was going to have that memorable encounter at the end of tFoH, and that she would need to make plans to prevent Lan from effectively committing suicide.
If I am not mistaken it was also stated somewhere that Myrelle was one of the very few who had, in the past, managed to save other warders whose original Aes Sedai had died (not sure if those are among her current three or not though) and that played a part in Moiraine’s decision to choose her (apart from the fact that they were the Tower equivalent of batchmates, approximately speaking).
At the time she made her plans, Nynaeve was not an Aes Sedai (nor even pretending to be one) so it was not possible for her to pass him on directly. Else she possibly wouldn’t have gone the Myrelle route. Not that Lan, with his prickly honour and subconscious death-wish, would have approved even of that, I suppose…
Since this is a difficult subject for many people, let’s save the rape discussion for the forthcoming essay as much as possible. Thanks!
Note: this is not about the rape discussion; it’s answering 2 questions that have been raised about Myrelle and Lan and about Myrelle and her other warders.
@8 Yes, Myrelle and Lan have definitely been sleeping together. During the meeting by Myrelle’s tents, Nisao teases Myrelle about it, and Myrelle blushes. Egwene then muses on the fact that sex is supposed to be therapeutic for bereaved Warriors and concludes that Myrelle has apparently taken care of that remedy herself.
A bit later, as Egwene and Lan are Skimming to Ebou Dar, she notices something that looks like a hickey on Lan’s neck–something that both fascinates and embarrasses her. This is surely intended as confirmation.
@15 You’re right. The warders Myrelle saved from bereavement suicide are Avar and Nuhel. I wonder if they ever discussed Myrelle’s methods with Lan? He’s not what you’d call chatty, but it would have been an interesting conversation.
Not diving into the rape discussion as per the Mods @16, but a couple clarifications to the open questions of fact here:
@8, @14 – RJ confirmed back in 2005 that yes, Myrelle slept with Lan, and Lan did not have a choice in the matter. Maria later pulled a direct quote from RJ’s notes that said: “She had to use the bond to compel [notice lower case here] him, sometimes, which she found both odd and somewhat insulting.” https://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt=%27myrelle%27
@15 – There was no hinting… Moiraine told Lan plainly that the bond would pass to Myrelle in the event of her death, and yes that was in the chapter “Watchers” in TGH when they were visiting Vandene and Adeleas.
Thanks for digging those Q&A bits up @18. I hadn’t seen those before. Not re-starting the discussion that the mods have asked we shy away from but this obviously renders most of my musings moot as it relates specifically to the Myrelle/Lan dynamic.
I do find that this makes me wonder more about the ‘compel’ factor on the Warder bond. How strongly can a Warder be compelled? Is it akin to a very strong suggestion, along the lines of a post hypnotic suggestion or something greater? I’ve never really settled that question in my own mind and probably just need to dig more into RJ answers from cons and such. lol
Thanks for clarifying the Lan/ Myrelle thing all.
Let’s leave it at that :)
Happy Holidays to everybody involved in this reread, and Moderator, thank you for passing the suggestion on to Sylas. It will make for a better balanced essay I think.
I’m surprised no one, including Sylas, has cottoned on to the morally questionable choice of Egwene demanding that Myrelle and Nisao swear fealty to her. Given the implications of the Three Oaths, this is a really big deal!
This becomes even more ridiculous later on, when Egwene is lambasting Elaida for even thinking about the same plan, and doesn’t reflect for a single moment on her own hypocrisy. Obviously some of this is because Jordan and Sanderson lost the thread of Egwene’s plot, and had no real way for her to achieve the goal they wanted her to (reintegrate the White Tower) without throwing plausibility or canonicity out the window, hence the whole “everyone will immediately listen to what I have to say for no real reason” plotline in the Tower, but this is a particularly egregious example. You can argue that her actions her are FAR more despicable than Myrelle’s – after all, Myrelle is attempting to save a life. Egwene is attempting to advance her own career.
Oh, I am definitely looking forward to this essay, especially as the suggestion has been passed to Sylas, as I freaking can’t stand Tylin.
I don’t want to delve too much either as we are saving that discussion but I’ll just say I enjoyed reading the musings on how and when rules are broken and why and when certain transgressions may be justified. (I do think that, when the time comes, the way we view certain taboos culturally IS a relevant topic in terms of where characters might be coming from.)
I don’t think I realized Myrelle literally compelled him though…I just figured it was kind of a passive/malaise driven thing because he just didn’t care.
I kinda wonder what Sylas would think of the show given that they somewhat (if I recall) merge Alanna/Myrelle together and imply she also ‘saves’ Warders. I definitely remember the implications weren’t as dark, though.
@2 “Myrelle is clearly a poor choice of therapist,” you say, but given that we are informed she is the *only* Aes Sedai in centuries to save more than one warder whose Aes Sedai has died, this judgment is suspect.
@21 I’d argue that neither Jordan nor Sanderson lost the tread of Egwene’s plot. Egwene criticizing others for doing what she has done herself, or wanted to do, or recognized that she’d do in the same circumstances, is a very deliberate character trait and a repeating motif throughout the series. We see her doing it again and again, and usually it works out for her. When she is at her best, Egwene realizes her hypocrisy, but even when she does expediency and her core belief that, all else being equal, she knows best, enables her to neatly compartmentalize her own actions as justifiable in the circumstances – which is a very, very, human thing to do.
I agree it’s inconsistent for Egwene to demand an oath of obedience of certain Aes Sedai and then complain about Elaida’s scheme to demand such an oath of all Aes Sedai.
However:
Oaths of obedience/fealty are common in Randland. Faolain and Theodrin have already sworn fealty to Egwene on their own initiative, of course. Quite a number of Aes Sedai have sworn fealty to Rand, not on their own. And think of Alliandre’s oath to Perrin and the long procession of Tairen and Cairhienin nobles waiting to swear fealty to Rand in ch. 46 of Fires of Heaven, when “the cold light burning in his eyes” scares the bejesus out of them.
In fact, Rand absolutely rages to be obeyed at times. These are not among his most attractive moments, yet most readers, I suspect, know where he’s coming from. He knows he has a very short time to bring the nations together to somehow win at Tarmon Gai’don, and that the scheming or gormlessness of the local rulers he must deal with can very easily make that impossible. He demands obedience, not to “advance his career”—he keeps wishing he could go back to being a shepherd—but because he wants the world to survive (and would kinda like to survive himself).
I see no sign that Egwene is a careerist either—in the sense of being obsessed with climbing the Aes Sedai professional ladder—and it sounds odd to me to hear her described as such. It is, however, explicitly stated that she throws her whole self into whatever she does, and it should be no surprise that she throws herself into being Amyrlin. But before being raised to the Amyrlin Seat, she has never expressed an interest in it. It’s Elaida the egotist who lusted for the stole long before getting it, and it’s Moiraine and Elayne who foresaw it for Egwene, not Egwene herself.
It’s also explicitly stated that Egwene is a very bright gal, and she shows it by seeing right off the bat that the Salidar bunch is too factionalized and too scared to march to Tar Valon and fight Elaida. But if they don’t do it, the Aes Sedai as a whole will remain divided and will not be an effectual part of Team Light’s forces at Tarmon Gai’don. This has to be fixed, or Team Light loses.
To get the Salidar group working together, Egwene has to be Amyrlin, as she puts it, and be in charge. She cannot be in charge if even her supposed lieutenants fail to take her seriously. Hence, the oaths. She doesn’t sit and gloat about them, but it’s arguable that she needs them as much as Rand does, and for much the same reason.
So. It’s true that oaths of obedience to the Amyrlin Seat have not been the rule among Aes Sedai. As I argue above, rulebreaking is a strong theme in WOT. Saving the world sometimes requires it. Sometimes our heroes suffer major blowback because of it, sometimes not. And sometimes they open themselves to charges of inconsistency and/or hypocrisy as a result. Look at Rand—breaking rules left and right, then furious when his own rules are disobeyed.
Which leads us to perhaps the most persistently repeated theme in WOT: The world is saved by imperfect folk who never wanted to do the job but saw that they were all there was to do it. A hyperfocus on one character’s imperfections misses this point.
Happy holidays, all!
@23: That may be true, but Lan is a unique case and it’s clear that Myrelle’s usual methods are not getting results.
Among the supergirls Egwene’s hypocrisy and her refusal to acknowledge it has always been front and center. Nynaeve, Min and Aviendha wear their hearts on their sleeves and are called fools by many, especially Cadsuane. Elayne is a hypocrite at times but she’s recognises that she is being so in the pursuit of some greater good. Having Brigette close helps her in that regard. Egwene never recognises her hypocrisies herself and has no one close to her to point them out. If she had not alienated the Aiel Wise Ones maybe she would have had a companion to help her. Of all the characters in the series Egwene shows the least growth. She becomes adept at getting what she wants but it is through manipulation and lies.
I’d say that Egwene is just as self-delusional as Nyneave or Mat. However, her denial goes in the seemingly positive direction of building herself up rather than aggression or denial. Egwene simply refuses to admit anything other than the righteousness of her cause.
@@@@@ 24 – It is all well and good to say “oaths of obedience are common” but you lose some integrity when you don’t acknowledge that the Three Oaths make this a very different kind of “oath”. The other examples of oath-giving you mention are all voluntary: Theodrin and Faolain swear to Egwene of their own free will, the post-Dumai’s Wells Aes Sedai also make a choice of their own volition; ta’veren nature or not, they came to Rand, not the other way around. Or in later cases, were Compelled by Verin. But Rand doesn’t demand it of them. And as mentioned, a non-Aes Sedai giving an oath is a very different thing, because they cannot be compelled by that oath to act against their own interests.
Egwene is the only character we see who demands an oath of obedience for her own direct benefit. Certainly the only “good” character. All of your other analysis is spot-on, except for the fact that the people swearing these Oaths could be compelled to kill themselves or others against their will. Egwene has enslaved them in a way which Rand does not do with the various rulers/nobles he encounters. Nisao and Myrelle no longer have autonomy over their own bodies or actions; Egwene could order them to jump into the ocean and they’d have to do it. The hypocrisy of her castigating Elaida for doing the same thing, for the same reasons, should highlight this and not hide it. Elaida also thinks she’s saving the world. Elaida is also working to impose central authority on a fractious group of very powerful women. You can’t even argue about motivations, here: after all, Egwene doesn’t have to demand an oath of obedience from these two, she can just keep blackmailing them. But no, she needs fealty.
I appreciate that we shouldn’t focus on the failings of one character to the exclusion of others, but Egwene in particular has a morally questionable streak that the others don’t; only Rand ends up in the same spot of using evil methods for “good” ends, and at least in his case it’s not part of his character from the word go. I’ve said it before, but in basically every facet of her character Egwene is a proto-Forsaken/Black Ajah who is only spared from turning to the Dark One by the plot armor that gives her everything she wants, when she wants, and the fact that she simply doesn’t have the time to make her way to the Shadow. Most of the Darkfriend channelers we meet explicitly go to the Shadow for reasons that are parallels of Egwene (for wanting to learn in ways that weren’t ethical, for political advancement when their ambitions were stymied, for power and knowledge and all that).
Hello friends! Sorry there is no new post to kick off the New Year–I took your advice and I’m going to wait for the essay. But I didn’t have time to complete a different post before the holiday break. So we’ll resume next week instead. Welcome to 2023! May it be a much better year for all of you than I think it’s going to be for Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Nynaeve, and all their friends.
Noooo another week of waiting. But it’s the right choice. Looking forward to the post next week. Here’s to a better 2023 for all of us.